I wondered what kind of lunging/groundwork people did with their western horses? when i had an english horse i long lined or lunged using a pessoa or harbridge type aid. All of which were geared to help my horse learn from the ground - what i also required on board.

I wondered if there was a way western horses are worked from the ground if you are too tired/stiff to ride? what tack do you use and what things do you do?

Hi Dingbat - yes, lots of western riders lunge their horses - commonly you will see the horse being lunged with the western saddle on, very useful as there are lots of places on the saddle where you can fix the reins, depending on what you need to work on.

Ok. Where (and how) would you fix the reins and for what different purposes? Would you use anything else (i.e martingale etc) either?

I'm just curious.

hello again! you can simply fix the reins to the saddle horn, or down through the front legs and back up to the horn - good for a horse that needs to learn to yield to the rein, or if you have a horse that is very stiff and ungiving on one side, you can fix one rein to one of the metal pieces on the side of the saddle, or even the stirrup which will have some movement. As long as you start gently, and gradually increase the bend/stretch, you'll be able to do all sorts of things!

mine isnt keen on it to be honest! i was shown how to attach them down under the front legs but despite having them loose (cant tie them any looser!) he goes ok and then suddenly slams his head high up and then starts going back and being daft. the reins wont do anything with his head in neutral - they only come into play if he puts his head like a giraffe but he insists on suddenly doing it?!

This is the problem with fixed reins. I know alot of the main training of horses is about the front end - if you look back to old classical texts (which is supposed to be very similar to good western riding) it is about building the back up properly (lunging, long reining and groundwork including shoulder-in, sidepassing from the ground). There is so much research showing that artificially tying the head down does nothing but build the wrong muscles. I guess your horse Dingbat is just showing you how hard it is for him to do. I think we would be the same if someone strapped our heads down, after a while our muscles would feel tired, go into spasm, etc. We can say - the horse cannot.

There is a good website that explains things relatively clearly:

http://www.sustainabledressage.net/collection/false_collection.php

If you scroll down the page she shows the effect of pulling in the neck when the rest of the horse is not ready. I understand that a horse will naturally do this, without force or gadget once it is physically ready.

At the top and bottom of the webpage she also has links linking to other topics to do with collection. I know the site is mainly about dressage it is also about good horsemanship - which is what we are all trying to aim for.