I don't think the responses from any of us to your post have suggested there aren't quality QH youngsters in the UK. There are plenty. That isn't the point. Neither is it a matter of importing from third world countries (see my post regarding Criollos).

Your post suggested people should be supporting British breeders, but it's perfectly reasonable to want to go out and buy a made horse, not a show stopper or a horse to be competed by a pro, just a nice QH you can show and have fun with. I repeat what I said. Just try and find one. They are in short supply. It isn't a quick fix, want everything straightaway attitude to prefer a made horse to a youngster but a perfectly reasonable desire. Training is hugely expensive here especailly if you want to keep a youngster in long term training for the benefit of all concerned and not just a few weeks here and there. That's as useless for horses as it would be for children. It's also true, which I repeat from my earlier post, that many people, even experienced riders have reached the stage where they don't want the greater risks attached to bringing on youngsters and want a slightly more mature horse that has been brought on properly. Sadly one of the reasons there is a dearth of decent horses here, and this applies not just to QHs, is that there are just too many idiots presenting themselves as pros and ruining young horses. Look around you at the number of people on yard with horses they can barely handle. Yes, I agree that bad horses are made and that's the point. Sadly the horses suffer as they are brought on by low lifes setting themselves up as trainers but the net result is a dearth of quality, well mannered, quiet horses suitable for all riders.

HUH!!! shows are run to showcase breeders and trainers produce ??? no they are run for horse owners to enjoy a hobby, horses are mostly a leisure animal now, the breeders are there to advertise as are the trainers there to find work or show owners horses.... we are the customers, the people
who spend hard earned cash on our chosen disapline whether its western or english inhand or ridden..

Post edited by: Roland, at: 2008/04/13 08:26

Appy No spots - I think our friends in America would find it somewhat offensive to be refered to as a "third world country" Argentina may have a poor economic situation at the moment but to concider it third world is ludicrious (and highly ignorant) The South American horse market is run incredibly proffesionally - have you ever looked into it? (eg embryo transfer in polo ponies) I'm gobsmaked by your ignorance to be honest!!

As for your comment that there is no such thing as a bad horse only bad owners, riders and trainers - well there is quite definately breed specific traits, I meet a lot of really fabulous warmbloods but I don't want one as my "pleasure horse" because I'm 5ft nothing - I want to ride my Criollo! We are proffessionsl horse breakers and have never met horses as easy as Criollos. And as a gross generalisation the worst - cobs.

Our Criollos fly in, walk of the wagon, looking fabulous. Why do you concider it cruel? I've spent years working with some of the most expensive stallions in the world who were shuttling constantly with no ill effects. I have No problem in this day and age moving horses intercontinental (including by boat)

Might be worth bearing in mind that the average owner in this country has one horse and that their riding and competing is their hobby. If importing allows them to have a horse that they enjoy then that is completely their perogative.

I would just like to add a note to this increasingly heated discussion.

I am what some call a 'hobby breeder' and most of my breeding stock is imported. I do it because I love my quarter horses and would like to think I am producing healthy, sound foals with proven breeding lines and the little ones have the potential to go on into most disciplines, if the owner wishes to do so. However, all I am striving for is someone to own one of my horses and think they are the best thing since sliced bread.

I understand concerns about imported riding geldings, but I think there are certain elements not to forget.

Sometimes, it is cheaper to import (albeit blind - I am not too sure I would buy a riding horse I hadn't ridden) no matter how frustrating it may be to the breeders/trainers. Then again so are a lot of good foreign cars/computers/etc.. So that is the way of the world

Recently in the past years a lot of people have entered into the Quarter Horse world including Western etc , and indeed, I think that is what everybody is wanting to have more acknowledgement of the quality that the qh etc brings to people. Unfortunately, it comes with forfeits which means the competition is greater and some of us have had to look at our pricings and re-adjust. Not ideal, but then again I can remember when I showed cats when Maine Coons cats were over £1000, now you can pick them up for £150!

I cannot comment on training, although I do know it is expensive, but then again everything is if you want a good trainer to do a good job, that is going to last a lifetime, and of course this will reflect in the eventual asking price of a ridden horse.

In most respects I agree with all the comments made.

Yes, I have yearlings for sale which is uncommon for me at this time of year and a lot of it has to do with the state of the Country and people reluctant to spend money unless it is on, what they perceive to be the best value for their money.

Yes, I want someone lovely to come along, buy one of my youngsters, have it trained to a high standard by one of the best professional trainers in the country. However, I think the vast majority of qh's are sold to people just wanting 'the ideal horse' in their opinion.

I cannot comment on Criollo's as I have no knowledge of them at all.

Yes, I would like to think before buying from abroad most people have thoroughly investigated what is available in the UK, decided on which option to take and then - surely make their own mind up.

Yes, I do get frustrated that some of my babes have not found homes yet.

hen I go on to the internet and look at horse for sale outside the UK to see what 'bargains' are available due to the £/$ ituation.

Human nature

Well this topic has certainly opened a can of worms! Having both imported and bought British horses in the past, I have to say that with the current economic climate, dollar rate etc, it is a buyers market. Also everyone has their own idea of what will be their perfect horse and it is up to them what they choose. It is their money and they will spend it on what they want. There are far too many sub standard stallions out there (I don't mean any breed in particular, so don't think I am pointing any fingers) and until breeders realise that only quality horses are worth breeding they are going to be stuck with at least some of their offspring. All animals deserve a good home so indiscriminate breeding should stop, unfortunately there are many people that will jump on the bandwagon wanting to make a quick 'buck', without enough understanding of what they are doing. Conformation, temperament and ability to do the job they are bred for are all important factors, not just a pretty colour. If the stallions and mares are not good enough then why oh why breed more from them?!! People thses days want a horse to have fun, they are expensive to keep and a good horse costs the same to keep as a bad one. Human nature as it is, people are always looking to get something for nothing or for as little as possible. Breeders can only hope to breed the best quality that they can and hope that buyers will appreciate what they are looking at. Many do want a ready made horse and not a baby as I have found out to my cost. Baby horses still have to be looked after and not everyone has the time, knowledge or money to do this. Breeding the best stock you can will eventually pay dividends, but you will still get peole buying in from abroad. I am not having a go at anyone here, it happens with ALL breeds. If you can't afford to keep them until they are ready to ride, then don't breed them! If they don't sell one year don't breed anymore the next year or until the first lot are sold. I wonder if there are enough good homes anyway and would have kept all mine if I could have afforded too. I couldn't so I simply don't do it anymore!

may I step in?

I have to go to work so this shouldn't be a real long rant, but gee this is getting heated isn't it?!

Importing horses makes sense on soooo many levels I can't believe it's even an issue. PERSONALLY I would not spend the money on a gelding, but heck, if you like geldings, why not?

Having just spent enough money to by a small child on the black market to take two QH mares TO the USA I can vouch for the fact that it's hard to leave your buddies behind... I had to leave my broodmare behind due to finances and the fact I thought the trip would be too much for her, and the sub zero climate.... I can't even write her name it hurts so much, and I end up blubbing all over the place, I miss her, but it was for her benefit not mine so...

Any-who, I think the criollo comments are a touch offensive, and though I just skimmed it all really, it sounds to me like your saying these people are just importing cheap horses from virtual knacker yards and selling them on for a profit... I know nothing about the people, or the horses, but I know before I left all I heard was good stuff, so I don't see why they are getting blasted...

QHs in the UK are expensive, and there are too many good geldings with extra bits... we can all name a sub standard stud, and I bet they'd all be different. I am not talking personal preferences here, I am talking genuine conformational or temperamental issues, and sometimes just a nice horse, that got kept entire for no good reason.

Some UK QH people seem to believe horse breeding will make them rich and I know too many that get a colt and keep it entire cause its got color or bloodlines or it's mom did this or it's dad did that... frankly they keep them entire just cause they can.

Then you have people that want showing to get big, and be taken seriously, but then you get a reiner in the halter, and a pleasure horse in the reining... and while I like it, and I am an advocate of the versatile QH, you can't have it both ways. Small shows, everybody can play, big time needs professional standards, and unfortunately, specialized horses.

On showing, it is NOT a showcase for breeders and trainers... that would be the open CLASSES... maybe, but the AM classes for sure are for people to go and get a professional opinion on their horse, themselves, their training, turn out etc. so don't even go there. Showing is for everybody. End of.

I think I lost my train of thought there, but I gotta go, so, basically, people import everything from apples to cars because it is easier to get quality for less when they do, thats basic business. If and when they feel they can get value for money, they do buy local. Why do the showjumpers and dressage people go to Europe? Why do car buyers buy from europe? As soon as the UK stops whinging about the importers and puts the energy into producing what the buyers want at a price they will pay, problem solved.

Now excuse me I must go run for president...

Miss Yall! mmmm coffeee.